If the DNA and ANTI GANG legislation can save lives, then let’s get then passed in the house ahead of any IMF bill. Who give a f#%k about an IMF bill if they are dead or seriously injured by marauding gunmen in gangs.
If even one less murder could take place by having these two bills passed, then let’s have them now, not later.
Bunting and his team MUST have these two bills passed no later than January 31, 2014, we the people of the country will NOT accept the lame duck IMF excuse as a reason not to have these bills
I am prepared to take to the streets to save a Jamaican live !
I hope I do NOT stand alone in this regard.
I am about to begin a movement to ensure these bills are given priority above any other bill !
Filed under: Crime |
Warren's Blog 
You are getting there Jay. High time Jamaicans focus on the fundamental issues instead of pontificating about “cosmetics”.
Oh Lawd!
More lunacy.
How unnu suh blin’? You think that some bill in parliament gonna really bring down murder rates?
Is what grade being smoked again?
Check it people, murder rates came down when the police and army were able to freely engage and take out the Don’s thugs who are also murderers. Less murderers = less murders. Simple.
And that was done without any of the anti-gang legislation foolishness that everybody is getting all hyped up about. So wi nuh need dem bills! Win just need to let the police and army have a bit more freedom again as when di Americans forced us to do so in order to get their man.
Cleary you missed the point note my opening statement.
If the DNA and ANTI GANG legislation can save lives, then let’s get then passed in the house ahead of any IMF bill.
Now Peter Bunting the current Minister of National Security has been on record as saying the following.
Dudus is gone so reduction in violent crimes was a result of his removal from the Jamaican Society. Now that crime is up, should we not ask ” has Dudus sneaked back into Jamaica: ?
The Minister says these two bills will have a far reaching impact on crime reduction, so if we beleive that to be true and with nothing much happening, lets get the bills through the house quickly !
Why the delay, let’s get them pass and see the impact.
If as you say the anti gang legislation is foolishness and the DNA legislation will not help, then I’ll be damned, it’s time to get the !@#$ out of this country before becoming a victim.
Oh boy,
Let’s try again.
It nuh matter IF these bills can save lives bredrin, because everybody is barking up the wrong tree.
All this talk about IF lives can be saves with these PROPOSED bills when even Stevie Wonder coulda see we already have a PROVEN method of saving lives; put in place a curfew and let the soldiers and police wipe out the known thugs. End of story. Murders were over 1600 for at least two years running and threatening to reach 1800. Then about 50 odd thugs got wiped out and now murders are easily under 1300 for 3 years running. That is at least 900 lives saved over three years. No DNA bills, no anti gang legislation.
In the 1990’s the McGregor tapes were compiled which allegedly implicated “Upstanding” businessmen, Politicians, Senior police officers etc in “criminal” behavior. Percival James came out and said these wiretaps were illegal because legislation was not in place to support this approach. Think about the vast difference it would have made then?
Sam Sharpe in the 2000s, the entire police force was under investigation. Although, tapes existed to implicate prominent persons nothing came out it. These politicians are criminals themselves.
I must admit that I do not know the scope and depth of the Anti-Gang Legislation. I do hope that it encompasses something similar to the RICO statutes that was employed in the USA, where ENTIRE Gangs can be put away for many years based on “conspiracy” alone. This provides a lower threshold for conviction and see the wholesale warehousing of these thugs. This will create other problems, since Jamaica doesn’t have the prison space to house these criminals and new prisons will have to be built to accommodate all these new inmates. The lack of prision beds is one of the reasons we have Judges release murderers on bail, even individuals who are before the courts on multiple murders.
I would also hope that in bill will address the need to prove “source of funds” use to retain criminal lawyers. We cannot have the proceeds of crime being funnel into attorney’s pocket to aide in the defense of criminals. If the criminals cannot prove that the money used to pay the defense attorneys are “clean”, then these attorneys cannot accept such funds and risk criminal prosecution if they accept such funds. The bill need to provide for life sentences for criminals and their abettors who any any way attempt to intimate witnesses. Witnesses are the best way to get convictions in Jamaica and most countries for that matter. DNA is not even an option in the majority of cases where guns are used to kill people. If anything, we need to start developing an effective “searchable” fingerprint database, where ALL Jamaicans are required to have their fingerprint in the database.
I do agree that the security forces should be given a free reign to identify (known) criminals, especially the ones who have been identified as murderers and take them out. This is done in many countries and is very effective. Otherwise, we are sitting ducks waiting for the thugs to come get us. I repeat, there are no other ways around our crime problems and we can talk all we want, but our brand of criminals are smart and are not afraid to engage our security forces when cornered.
Test, do be fooled. The Antigang legislation will not put a dent in crime, the government is just trying to rehash ancient strategies that already exist. No legislation that is being passed will redound to the benefit of the Jamaica people, the Security Interest in Personal Property will not and the Antigang legislation definitely will not achieve anything.
Test, don’t be fooled. The Antigang legislation will not put a dent in crime, the government is just trying to rehash ancient strategies that already exist. No legislation that is being passed will redound to the benefit of the Jamaica people, the Security Interest in Personal Property will not and the Antigang legislation definitely will not achieve anything
Both can be worked on simultaneously. if the economy is out of wack, then some normal working class people will be pushed over the edge and some may become criminals and may kill and rob you.
Let’s have the bills passed and see the effect, we simply cannot sit back and do nothing.
We have piles and piles of documents done on the genesis of crime and what must be done to solve them, why has the Jamaican public not demand action.
October 13, 2013
“When this problem arose under the Jamaica Labour Party government, we enacted six crime bills and that undoubtedly assisted in bringing down crime. From 2010 up to 2012, there was a decline in criminal activity, in particular murders.
“The government refused to renew any of these six crime bills and what we have seen is, for the past three months at least, not only an escalation in serious crimes but murders in particular,” he added.
Chuck said he was also concerned that in recent months there have been no meetings of the National Security Council, which is chaired by Prime Minister Simpson-Miller.
Read more: http://www.caribbean360.com/index.php/news/jamaica_news/1025905.html#ixzz2nevUfYiA
If Crime was so important can anyone explain why the NSC have not had a meeting in months !
I cannot say Jamaicans are serious about their own security, the proof is we are not or this could NOT have happened.
Mr Bunting which six bills have not been renewed by your Ministry and why ?
@ K Smtih
Curfew are very short term measures to try and address a long term problem, if solving crime was as easy as setting up curfews and catching the bad guys, trust me we would have solved this problem a long time.
What the two pieces of legislation seeks to do is to criminalize certain actions and remove those who are likely to commit crimes as a result of being in a gang.
The DNA legislation can be a very good tool if used properly and let me explain this.
If one were to be very diligent at a crime scene one can use the things like cigarette butt a beer can, hair fragment collected at a crime scene to link a criminal to a victim. This sample can be matched against DNA data base collected from those who have run afoul of the law before or where that data does not exist can establish a link between crimes to the same individual.
The hope is that by use of this technology allow with better evidence gathering and crime scene protection, the cops can bring enough evidence to put away more of these guys.
The greater the chances of getting caught and punished, will have an effect of reducing crimes.
Jamaica crime rate is high due to the fact that most criminals know are not likely to be caught.
Yuh head tuff like coconut eh?
Where you see mi write that curfew is di only ting dat must be done? You neva see mi write about letting the police and soldiers eliminate known thugs? How hard is dat to follow?
Look man, the way to reduce crime is either to:
1. Decriminalize the activity in question. They did that with the sale of alcohol in the US after prohibition. For plenty good reasons that simply cannot be done with murder and theft…so that leaves us with:
2. Remove the perpetrators of crime from the general population. This is done in three ways:
A. Prison sentence. In di US they have a three strike rule; no matter what if you commit three offenses then you get a life sentence because quite obviously you don’t know how to keep out of trouble so the state will keep you out of trouble by locking you up and throwing away the damn key
B. death sentence. This also happens in the US. And it is what happened in 2010 for nuff thugs who weren’t too bright. Knowing how much some of dem people cayman obey authority a curfew is a very easy way to isolate them. Bad man nuh ‘fraid of police, but then bad man nuh too bright. So if you allow the police the powers to lock up or take out people who are openly challenging authority (hence di curfew) then presto! All di idiot bad men with big guns now become dead or jailed bad men fearing for their backside’s safety! Unnu figet that Trinidad did have one longstanding curfew which did help bring crime back under control?
C. Prevention. This is where you keep people from turning to a life of crime in the first place. But prevention is useless unless you use either A and/or B wid it because until you take out the current crop of criminals they will always be training the next generation.
Now if you wanna follow Chuck and him foolishness go right ahead, but Chuck must be on crack if him think dat it was really dem 6 bills which did lower the crime rate when even a primary school student doing science for the first time would have noticed the trend in the decline in murders from BEFORE the anti crime bills were passed at the end of June 2010 (murders started declining in May 2010 after the Recapture of Tivoli).
But you see Chuck can’t say the truth which is that allowing the police and army to conduct a large scale military-type counter-insurgency counter-offensive into the heart of a JLP criminal stronghold/garrison is what really lead to the dramatic drop in crime. Because Chuck deh already out in the cold with the One Don’s successor, Andrew Holness. So he couldn’t dare say that about the New Don’s mentor and expect to remain in the JLP. Poor ting. So beholden to criminals and their friends that he can’t speak the truth (maybe him nuh even recognize the truth). This applies equally to him and to others in e Houses of Parliament on both sides.
Look man, don’t be a fool. The only reason why the police and army were allowed to go after Tivoli in the first place was because the US forced Jamaica to do so and once Jamaica was forced to do the right thing, the Tivoli thugs were delusional enough to think they could actually fend off the JCF and JDF who now didn’t have to fight blindfolded and with one hand tied behind their back. As soon as the job was done though the JLP and PNP let the curfew lapse even though if the JLP really wanted it to continue they could have easily voted to retain it with their majority. Instead they let it lapse and pull wool over di people dem eye wid dem “anti-crime bills” (rolling my eyes and rolling on di floor wid laughter at the thought of those bills).
Next ting, how Chuck and company so fool-fool as to pass bills intended to permanently dent crime but made them renewable after a temporary period? Dat mek any kind of sense? Don’t be fooled. If they were serious about crime dem woulda mek di bills permanent unless repealed AND they would have put in a three strikes rule in the bills at a minimum.
So gwaan fantasize bout anti-crime bills and DNA legislation. Because obviously unnu need it for some reason.
So as to not prolong this back and forth thing let me ask you one question ?
Why did we see a drastic reduction in the incidence of lotto scam ?
If I were to follow your argument, all we need the cops to do was to go and eliminate or arrest the lotto scammers.
Well guess what the cops were arresting but had to let them go, why, because there was no legislation on the books to use and charges these guys.
The USA force us to pass legislation which the Jamaican police can now use to charge scammers and the USA even decided in some cases after these guys were arrested, they could be extradited to the USA and face some lone prison terms.
What was the result ?
Arresting someone without a law being in place to ensure he does not simply walk makes no sense.
The idea of eliminating ” bad men” sounds like extrajudicial killings, which I will NEVER support. Over 200 Jamaicans have been killed by cops this year as they sought to eliminate bad men and my guess is many were innocent people.
The Jamaican cops have been doing this for years and guess what, murders continues to increase.
The bills alone, won’t solve the problem and neither will praying for divine intervention.
The nexus between criminals and politicians must be broken. The day cops can investigate, arrest, charge and get a quick conviction of a criminal politician in Jamaica is the day when we can begin to solve the crime problem.
In Jamaica some men are too big to go to jail and therein lies a major part of our problem.
I want to also see a bill in place that removes the police commissioner from reporting to the Minister of National Security. This will give the police complete freedom from the political process and the ability to go after anyone without fear of being sanctioned .
Lol
I tek it back. Your head not tuff like coconut. It tuff like set cement!
Let’s go over this slowly for you so you can follow, okay? 🙂
Your post referred specifically to murder and rather being alive than dead. Later in one of your comments you mentioned these fairy-tale bills supposedly being able to save lives.
I came in and laughed at the inane reasoning that some half-baked bills would decrease the crime you were referring to (murder) and pointed out that we already had a PROVEN method if reducing murders.
Still with me? Good, because I know this must be difficult.
Now you are asking about…..lotto scammers?!
Hahahahahahaha. Oh man, that was a good one.
I suppose now you will proceed to tell us how these lotto scammers managed to MURDER those poor senile old American folks they preyed upon using nothing more than a phone right?
Dem lotto scammers defrauded people and at worst intimidated them. They didn’t commit murder at will and carry out armed robbery with the intent to murder their victims afterwards, got it?
Now to answer your rather irrelevant question, the decrease in the lotto scamming activity was due to the US forcing us to pass legislation that as a result got the scammers off the streets using method 2.A from what I told you before! This was done via extradition —-> thus putting them in prison in the US!
But lotto scammers aren’t thugs roaming the streets with Eagles and Kalashnikovs, they are crooks with a lot of time to chat and with practically ZERO power to actually murder any of the scammed old people. That’s why they target them, because such victims are weak and easily frightened.
You are hoping for bills to have the same effect on an entirely different type of criminal and without those bills even paving the way for the Americans to cart the thugs off to prison for us! (Unless you know of a part of the bill which allows the US to take them away; right now the US isn’t interested in Jamaican thugs murdering Jamaican citizens). What a laugh!
I’m telling you that option 2.B is what has been proven to decrease the murder rate. Not the tripe they are debating in parliament.
Clearly you don’t get it , so I rest my case.
2A Our conviction rate is 5%, which means 95% of the folks get away due to lack of proper evidence or legislation to ensure conviction.
2B I don’t know how you get to death sentence with a 5% conviction rate ?
I hear people talking nonsense about death penality, no recognizing that you must first catch the guys, convict him before you got to sentencing.
I am sure you would have said simply eliminate the scammer from the street and that would have solve the crime , not recognizing the scammers were being locked up and then released because….. walla there was no legislation on which to charge them.
Get it yet ?
Surely you won’t as you cannot seem to link crime to legislation regardless of the type of crime.
😦
A death sentence with a 5% conviction rate? Wha’ di…?
Okay, clearly you can’t read too well. Did you skip comprehension classes?
read over what I wrote and look carefully for where I said anything about a death sentence being put in place after court proceedings and conviction. You may have trouble finding it because it’s not there! Lol!
You real thick bredda.
How many of the dozens of thugs (who were openly walking about Tivoli with high powered weapons) eliminated in the recapture of Tivoli in 2010 were convicted before the police and army took them off the streets for good with some well placed bullets?
About 4 dozen or so thugs were taken out in one day in 2010 and their stronghold taken over and the murder rate dropped from 1600+ to around 1,100+. That’s about 10 murders per (dumb) thug. (the smart ones would have never been out there in the first place, but as can be seen, not too many were smart if we could get a nearly one THIRD drop in the murder rate because of that). So if the police and army are allowed to do their job and engage the dumb thugs who have problems with authority (that is law and order) then they can probably eliminate another 40+ brutes who are walking about with rifles and the murder rate should drop to under 1,000 easily.
Get it now?
A death sentence is not only given in a court. That much should have been clear, but you seem stuck mentally bro. Take your time and think on it. And rememba! Nuff of the major crimes are being committed by REPEAT offenders. Get rid of repeat offenders (with either a 3 strikes law (that would be 2.A) or letting the police/army replicate the Tivoli procedure (that would be 2.B)) and a lot of the crime is gone. Di what lef is then being done by rookies who will eventually find themselves behind bars or in a wooden box.
This is what I mean about our leaders and the people they led.
IMF Requirements Force Christmas Eve Sitting Of Parliament ( but DNA and Anti gang legislation could not)
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/latest/article.php?id=50059.
Jamaicans need to wake up.
Wha’ happen? You still believing in fairy tales that these bills have a ghost of a chance of actually impacting crime?
Lol. You stubborn and your head thick sah!
I guess you still Neva get that I mean the police and soldiers should be allowed to shoot those thugs who challenge them and in the process reduce the murder rate.
Keep dreaming though, lol!